You can access the full transcript here...way huge hat tip to Vital Perspective.
There is a lot of unintended humor is this, believe me..the interaction of a jihadi fanatic with a senile old fart of a talking head is funny just on the face of it. I can't imagine that CBS cares about what's left of its credibility as a news organization what they set up somebody like Mike Wallace to do a serious interview of this kind...
Here are the jucier bits, and of course, in between the lines the wit and wisdom of your pal FF:
MIKE WALLACE: When Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad speaks out candidly, and he does it a lot, he scares a lot of people. He has said more than once that Israel should be wiped off the map and that the Holocaust is an overblown fairytale. Interviewing him in Tehran this past week, it became apparent that he sees the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah, that militia Iran has long supported, as part of a larger battle between the U.S. and a militant Islam for control of the Middle East.
MAHMOUD AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Very clearly I will tell you that I fully oppose the behavior of the British and the Americans.
Q: Oh, yes, I know that you do.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) They are providing state of the art military hardware to the Zionists and they are throwing their full support behind Israel. We believe that this threatens the future of all peoples, including the American and European peoples, so we are asking why the American government is blindly supporting this murderous regime.
Q: Wait, wait, wait, wait.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Their laser-guided bombs have been given to the Zionists and they're targeting the shelter of defenseless children and women.
Q: Who supports Hezbollah? Who has given Hezbollah hundreds of millions of dollars for years? Who has given Hezbollah Iranian-made missiles and rockets that is making - that are making all kinds - may I ask my question, please, sir?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Are you the representative of the Zionist regime or a journalist?
(I knew it! A JOOOOO! cue dramatic organ crescendo: dadum dum dah!)
Q: I am a journalist. I am a journalist.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) This is not journalism, sir. Hezbollah is a popular organization in Lebanon and they are defending their land.
(Aw c'mon, Mo...you know and I know Hezbollah attacked Israel on your orders to take the spotlight off your nukes program...and until that happened there were no IDF soldiers in Lebanon at except the ones Hezbollah kidnapped. Make it look a little credible, OK? And yeah you're right, Wallace isn't a journalist. I'll give you that one..)
Q: Oh, really?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) They are defending their own houses. And according to the charter of the United Nations, every person has the right to defend his house. What I'm saying is that the killing of innocents is reprehensible and the displacement of people and making them refugees again is reprehensible.
Q: Wait a minute. Hezbollah is displacing and damaging and making bleed all kinds of people. You know that.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Please tell me, are the Lebanese inside the occupied lands right now, or is it the other way around - that the Zionist troops are in Lebanese territory? Lebanon is defending its independence. We are not at all happy with war. That is why on the first day we condemned these recent conflicts and we asked for an immediate ceasefire.
Q: (Narrating interview.) He told us the United Nations Security Council has not been effective in Lebanon because the Security Council is in America's pocket.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, the reason is that the UNSC is there to safeguard the interests of the British and the Americans. They are not there to provide security. It's very clear.
Q: The UNCS - the United Nations Security Council - is there to protect the interests of the United States and the British? That's what you say?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) It has been created to help with peace and justice, but we see that it is not responding to atrocities. If we search for the root causes, we see the hand of the British and the Americans. People - innocent people are being killed.
Q: (Narrating interview.) And he told us the Security Council is also doing America's bidding by trying to prevent Iran from developing nuclear energy. The Security Council is demanding that Iran stop all uranium enrichment by the end of this month, which Iran is refusing to do.
(Poor Kofi and the UN..they don't get no respect nowhere)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) But if Mr. Bush thinks that he can stop our progress, I have to say that he will be unable to do that.
Q: What do you mean?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) We want to have access to nuclear technology. We want to produce fuel. Do you not think that the most important issue of the world of tomorrow that it will be energy? We think that Mr. Bush's team and the parties that support him want to monopolize energy resources in the world because once they have that, they can impose their opinions, points of view, policies on other nations. And of course line their own pockets.
Q: President Bush has said - vowed he will not allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon. Do you believe him?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Basically, we are not looking for - working for the bomb. The problem that President Bush has that in his mind he wants to solve everything with bombs. The time of the bomb is in the past. It's behind us. Today is the era of thoughts, dialogue, and cultural exchanges.
('basically', Mo...or are you seeking nukes just as a nifty byproduct? What about the secret project you have going at Neyshabour? Puh-lease..we're not all as stupid or uninformed as Mike Wallace.)
Q: Israel, you have said time and again, Israel must be wiped off the map. Please explain why, and what is Iran doing about that?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, allow me to finish with the nuclear dossier first.
Q: Oh, you finished with that. You finished with that. Tell me -
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) No, it's not finished, sir. It's not finished. We are just beginning.
Q: Okay. That's what I was afraid of, but go.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, the Americans are overly sensitive, and of course the American government. I don't know why they're opposed to Iranian progress.
Q: The United States is against Iranian progress and development?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) That is true. That is what I am saying.
Q: Ah, you know that's not so.
(Actually Mike, it is so...especially with people like Ahmadinejad and Khamenei in charge)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, I'm going to explain. Before the revolution, the German, French, American governments and the Canadian government had signed contracts with us to produce nuclear fuel inside Iran, but immediately after the establishment of the Islamic Republic, their opposition started. Right now, they are opposed to our nuclear technology. Now, why is that?
(Yes, readers, Mo is telling the truth. Jimmy Carter was actually going to allow the Shah to purchase full bore nuclear reactors. Believe it or not.)
Q: Because the U.S. is convinced that nuclear energy is just a smokescreen, that what Iran really wants is the bomb.... You are very good at filibustering. You still have not answered the question. You still have not answered the question: Israel must be wiped off the map. Why?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, don't be hasty, sir. I'm going to get to that.
(Don't worry, infidel..we will indeed get to that as soon as the nukes and missiles are ready..and tommorow, New York and Miami)
Q: I'm not hasty.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) I think that the Israeli government is a fabricated government.
(And Iran isn't? You might want to ask the Iranian moderates who were the main impetus behind toppling the Shah and later got purged by the Mullahs about that)
Q: Last December, you said this: "The Europeans created a myth - the Holocaust." A myth?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) What I did say was that if this is a reality, if this is real, where did it take place?
Q: In Germany.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) There are (unintelligible).
Q: In Germany.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Who caused this in Europe?
Q: In Europe. What you are suggesting - one moment - what you are suggesting, then, that Israel should be over in Germany because that's where the Holocaust took place?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) I'm not saying that, mind you.
(`I ask the US and the Europeans to correct the mistake of 60 years ago and remove the zionists from the Middle East,before it is too late' - Ahmadinejad, July, 2006)
Q: (Narrating interview.) But he has said Israel could be moved to Europe or even to the United States, but it should not be in Palestine.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, if an atrocity was committed in Germany, or Europe for that matter, why should the Palestinians answer for this? They had no role to play in this. Why on the pretext of the Holocaust they have occupied Palestine? Millions of people have been made refugees. Thousands of people to date have been killed, sir. Thousands of people have been put in prison. Well, at the very moment, a great war is raging because of that.
(You're such a liar, Mo. First of all, the Arab world, especially the Palestinians, were directly complicit in the death toll of the Holocaust. Second, the Palestinian `refugees, according to the British census numbered maybe 400,000..and the vast majority left voluntarily, as can be seen by the 100,000 or so that stayed and live there to this day.)
Q: Look, if you could - if you could keep your answers concise, I beg you, we'll get more questions in.
(this is a `journalist' at work? Sheesh)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, one of your questions requires - all of your questions require a book-long answer. If you want me to just finish the interview, please tell me and we can wrap up right now.
Q: No, no, no, no, no.
(noooo, please....the network will pack me off to the old folk's home with Cronkite!)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Do you perhaps want me to say what you want me to say? Am I to understand -
Q: No. No.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) If that is the case, then I ask you to please be patient. Maybe these days you don't have a lot of patience to spare. Maybe these are words that you don't like to hear, Mr. Wallace.
(Actually, I agree with Mr. A..Wallace is being a rude jerk..but then, he always was a punk with a loud mouth and an IQ with only a fighting chance of two digits)
Q: Why? What words do I not like to hear?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Because I think that you're getting angry.
Q: I couldn't be happier for the privilege of sitting down with the president of Iran.
(Kiss Kiss...both cheeks. And I don't mean on Ahmadinejad's face)
Q: I am told that your Revolutionary Guards, Mr. President, are taking bombs - those roadside bombs, the IEDs, into Iraq. And what they are doing is furnishing the insurgents in Iraq with the kind of material that can kill U.S. soldiers. Why would you want to do that?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) We are very saddened that the people of Iraq are being killed. I believe that the rulers of the U.S. have to change their mentality. I ask you, sir, what is the American army doing inside Iraq? Iraq has a government, a parliament, Iraq has a civilized nation with a long history of civilization. These are people we are dealing with. Why are the Americans killing -
(Notice, Mo didn't actually answer the question about Iran meddling in Iraq..and Wallace didn't catch it)
Q: Was Saddam -
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) - Iraqis on a daily basis?
Q: Was Saddam a civilized, reasonable leader? Were we wrong to go into Iraq?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, Saddam's story has been finished for close to three years I would say. He belongs in the past.
Q: I just asked -
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) And the Americans are openly saying that we are here for the long run, in Iraq that is. So a question for you: according to international law, the responsibility of providing security rests on the shoulder of the occupation - occupying, rather, army. So I ask them, why are they not providing security?
(Gee, Mo...could Iran arming and training the Shia militias and shipping weapons and fighters into Iraq have anything to do with that? Yah think?)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) We are opposed to oppression. We support whoever is victimized and oppressed, even the oppressed people of the U.S.
(tell that to the Armenians, Baha'is, Kurds, and Jews of Iran..at least the ones that are still there...)
Q: What do you think of George Bush as a man and as commander- in-chief of the so-called free world.
(So called `free world', Mikey? What a disloyal, ungrateful turd you truly are.)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, the so-called says everything.
Q: What do you think of George W. Bush?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) What do you think I should think about the gentleman?
Q: Come on. Come on. You're perfectly capable of handling that question, if you have the courage to answer it.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, thank you very much. So you are teaching me how to be bold and courageous. That's interesting.
Q: (Chuckles.) Answer the question.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) I think that Mr. Bush can be in the service of his own people. He can save the American economy without killing people, without occupation, without threats. I am very saddened to hear that 1 percent of the total population is in prisons, and 45 million people don't have a healthcare coverage. That is very sad to hear.
(Tip to the Dems..Clinton/Ahmadinejad in `08!! Instead of `it takes a village' we can have `it takes a mullah')
Q: (Narrating interview.) And he was sad also not to hear any answer from President Bush to an 18-page letter he had sent Mr. Bush three months ago urging him to be less bellicose in his view of the world. The White House dismissed the letter as a publicity stunt.
Q: What did you expect to hear back from President Bush?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) I was expecting Mr. Bush to give up, or I should say to change his behavior. I was hoping to open a new window for the gentleman. One can certainly look on the world from other perspectives. You can love the people. You can love all people. You can talk with the people of the Middle East using another language, other words. Instead of blind support for an imposed regime they can establish a more appropriate relationship with the people of the region.
Q: You can love the people. That's very easy for you to say. You despise certain people. You despise the Zionists.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, I don't despise people, or individuals I should say.
Q: You despise Zionist leaders.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) What we are saying - what I am saying is that I despise heinous action.
You mean, like training little children to blow themselves up in Iraqi minefields during the war, Ahmadinejad? Still have a supply of Khomeini's plastic `keys to paradise' to hang around those little necks?)
Q: In the letter, you praise Jesus and ask President Bush how he could be a follower of Christ and claim to support human rights, but at the same time attack and occupy other countries, kill thousands of people, spend billions of dollars on wars, and you urged him - the president - out of respect for the teachings of Christ to be a force for peace instead of war. Is that so?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) That is true. This was a part of my letter.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) But please give him this message, sir. Those who refuse to accept an invitation to good will not have a good ending or fate.
(I read the letter. The invitation was to accept Islam..or else)
Q: What does that mean?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, you see that his approval rating is dropping every day. Hatred vis-a-vis the president is increasing every day around the world. For a ruler, this is the worst message that he could receive. Rulers and heads of government at the end of their office must leave the office holding their heads high.
Q: How long has it been since the leaders of Iran and the leaders of the U.S. have had any conversations?
AHMADINEJAD:(Translated.) Twenty-six, 27 years.
Q: Do you have the least desire to resume relations with the United States?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Should we do that?
I agree...why bother?
Q: Do you have that desire?
AHMADINEJAD:(Translated.) Who cut the relations, I ask you.
(we-eeel Mo..I think Iran did. I mean, taking over our embassy and holding the staff hostage was a little bit onery and unfriendly on Iran's part, don't you think? Of course, we had Jiummy Carter as president at the time rather than anyone with a proper set of equipment, or we wouldn't be having this problem today, would we? Lucky you.)
Q: That's not the point. The question is: would you, the president of Iran, like to resume relationships which have been gone for 26, 27 years, with the United States?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, we are interested to have relations with all governments and all nations.
Q: No, no, no. Please answer -
AHMADINEJAD:(Translated.) This is a principle of my foreign policy.
(Hooooo boy!)
Q: I know that.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Allow me to finish my thought.
Q: Why don't you just answer? Say yes or no?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, you asked me a three-minute long question and you are asking for a yes or no answer?
Q: No, no, no I didn't. No, it's a very simple question.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) So is this a multiple choice?
Q: Do you want to - (laughs).
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) A, B, C, D?
Q: Do you want to have relations now, after 26, 27 years, with the United States? What harm could come from that?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) We are not talking about harm. The conditions - conducive conditions have to be there.
Q: And what are those conducive conditions?
(Mikey sez: I really wanna be a good lil' dhimmi, mr. Ahmadinejad sir...how can we best appease you?)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, please look at the makeup of the American administration, the behavior of the American administration. See how they talk down to my nation? They want to build an empire and they don't want to live side by side in peace with other nations.
Q: Who? Who does not? Washington does not?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) The American government, sir. It is very clear to me. They have to change their behavior and everything will be resolved.
Q: I am told that your aides want us to wind up our interview, but you kindly promised to answer my questions and I still have just a few left.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, you might have five more hours of questions.
Q: Well, of course I might.
(even Ahmadinejad doesn't deserve to be subjected to that..talk about torture!)
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) Well, I have other appointments to get to, sir.
Q: Oh, none more important than this, Mr. President. One more.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) It's time for the night prayers.
(C'mon, infidel...tonight, the sermon is on the peace of Hudibiyeh, the evil of the Jooos and how war is deception...I love that one!)
Q: Last one. Your - you have a special unit of martyr seekers in your Revolutionary Guard. They claim they have 52,000 trained suicide bombers ready to attack American and British targets if America should attack Iran.
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) So are you expecting the Americans to threaten us and we sit idly by and watch them -
Q: And -
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) - with our hands tied?
Q: And have Americans threatened you?
AHMADINEJAD: (Translated.) I do hope that the Americans will give up this practice of threatening other nations so that you are not forced to ask me such questions. I wish you well and further success.
Q: Thank you, sir.
(Ewwww!)
in all candor ff, i did not read this posting.
ReplyDeletebut i am surprised by one revelation made in the course of this interview.
mike wallace is still alive?
if so maybe we can stick him between two trucks with "TV" on the doors in gaza city and hope for the best.
this is msm prostitution.
he interviewed saddam and look what that got him............
hhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
We purchased some pruns for my 82 year old mother. One fell out of the bag and we recently found it under a counter.
ReplyDeleteIt is unbelieveable it now looks just like your photo of Mike Wallace, but its' color is better. I am going to see if we can sell it on E Bay,
I thouth I would mention it here first incase you wanted a try at it. (NOT)
President Ahmadinejad did answer all the questions but of course he didn’t say the things most people in west wanted to hear, things they expect to hear because they have been brain washed and scared by US media. He clearly said that Israel is an illegal entity that has been put in place by force and on top of that still oppresses natural residence of that occupied land like a bully, i.e. Palestinians. He clearly said that he believes that an independent Jewish state is necessary to avoid another holocaust (weather to that extent it happened or not) but not in Palestinians' land that had absolutely nothing to do with holocaust. He also clearly said, that region needs a democratic referendum among all its residents to vote for its future and that will be the way to wipe Israel (an oppressing entity that governs Arabs) off the maps, that doesn’t mean Jews have to leave the land it just says Israelis have no right to rule the land that doesn’t belong to them. He also implied that unfortunately Israel has tied its fate to its military dominance backed by US, and as soon as that is over, with all this Arab hatred that Israel have been buying with its bombs for the last 70 years, it will be the end of Israel. I have a lot of disagreements with Ahmadinejad policies but what he said about Middle East and US agenda was 100% right and the truth. It made me have a new understanding and respect for Iran and Iranians.
ReplyDeleteHow does one take seriously the remakes of an individual who denies the Holocaust took place. The proof has been available for 6 decades.
ReplyDeleteA person who honestly believes in the True God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob should pray for G_d to reveal the truth to them.
H_ will reply, you may not like the answers but H_ will> Guess what, you lost and all of mankind who has not made a Holy Contract with H-m has lost. H_ will sit on his throne and those who been faithful to H_m will join H_m But I promise you there will not be 72 virgins, or anyone who has tried to create social change blowing up women and children with nails and ball bearings.
NO those folks will be spending their time trying to cool off, but that will not work either.
Hello Paul.
ReplyDeleteI have a policy here at JoshuaPundit. When someone makes a respectful post, they deserve a respectful reply..no matter how repugnant and frankly misinformed their views are. You qualify, and I appreciate the way you have conducted yourself,so here goes...try to see if you can't challenge some of your beliefs.
First of all, Israel is not `an illegal entity put in place by force,' and I defy you to prove that statement. It is the historical home of the Jewish people and was an Ottoman controlled depopulated WASTELAND except for the majority Jewish cities of Safed and Jerusalem.
You might want to read Mark Twain on the subject, or consult the Ottoman's own census records of the time.
The Arabs did not begin returning to `Palestine' en masse until the jewish migration starting in the 1880's began creating prosperity and jobs for them...and in fact, most of the Arab migration occurred during WWII, when there was a labor shortage in Palestine because of the high percentage of Jews in uniform (over 33%) fighting for the allies and the British allowed unlimited Arab immigration...while prohibiting Jews from coming to Palestine.
Another little known fact is that much of the land in what became Israel, including lands you would think of as `settlements' was legally purchased from the Arab owners through the Jewish National Fund. The archives still exist, and they will doubtless astound you if you have the courage to have your beliefs challenged.
For your information, the Holocaust happened, and their are still a number of aged people with he numbers tatooed on their arms to prove it. Moreover, the Germans themselves have admitted it, for the most part.Ahmadinejad, of course, has stated that he wants to finish the job on numerous occasions.
What is NOT true is that the Arabs had no part in the Holocaust. In fact, they were directly complicit:J O S H U A P U N D I T: Ahmadinejad hits out at Israel ..again. But raises a legitimate point for discussion
As for Israel being `an oppressing entity that governs Arabs', here's something for you to chew on: Don't you think it's a bit odd that Arabs are perfectly free to live, work and vote in `repressive' Israel while jews have largely been ethnically cleansed in the Arab world?
You see, the core of Ahmadinejad and your beliefs (and they're racist, frankly) is that not only do Jews have no right to self determination in their homeland where they constitute a majority, but taht there are some defacto restrictions on where they are allowed to live in peace and freedom - `Arab land', for example. do you think thatthreatening someone with extinction if they don't move is a basis for `fair and equal treatment'?
If Jews are not allowed to live in Hebron, Gaza or Gush Etzion wihtout being oppressed, why would they be allowed to live in Tel Aviv? or London? or New York?
Now, I doubt that any of this will penetrate or change your views. But unless you're a Muslim, you might want to consider that ultimately, the jihad Ahmadinejad represents has the same choices in store for you as it does for the Jews you disdain so much...Muslim convert, corpse or slave.
Hi Nazar,
ReplyDeleteI think I was reasonably polite to Paul Kalman, considering that he essentially denied that the Holocaust happened, referred to Israel as an illegal entity
and likes the idea of ` a democratic referendum among all its residents to vote for its future and that will be the way to wipe Israel (an oppressing entity that governs Arabs) off the map'.(As if the Arabs have ever allowed Jews to live in peace with them!)
He essentially has the racist view that Jews are not only not entitled to exercise self-determination in their own homeland but should be subjected to restrictions on where they can live peacefully..which is what his ideas mean in reality.
I may be wrong, but I have a sneaking suspicion that he just might not be overly fond of Jews.
In any event, while he was entitlted to the polite response he got, there's no reason I can't consider his views racist and atthe least, ignorant.
Sorry..I calls `em like I sees `em.
"How does one take seriously the remakes of an individual who denies the Holocaust took place. The proof has been available for 6 decades."
ReplyDeleteHow does one take seriously the remarks of an individual who denies that the uprooting of 700,000 to 1,000,000 Palestinians took place. The proof has been there for 6 decades.
You all sound as dumb as Ahmedinejad. Wake up to the fact that the whole world, but the U.S. is aware of this. Don't bother responding, the same way you shouldn't give the time of day to someone sick enough to deny the holocaust, I refuse to give the time of day to someone sick enough to deny the nakba.
Hello Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteOh, I respond to everyone that comes here, if they pose something that rates a response.
Guess what..your figures are somewhat er....cooked.
According to the Brits' own census in the part of the Palestine mandate that became Israel, a MAXIMUM of 400,000 Arabs left or were driven out by what you call the `nakba' or catastrophy.
Obviously it wasn't a `catastrophy' for the 100,000 or so who decided to stay and become Israelis. They have a more affluent lifestyle and more legal and political freedom on average than Arabs anywhere in the Middle East. And that number of 400,000 or less is more than offset by the almost 1 million Jews ethnically cleansed from the Arab world after 1948.
Face up to it, `anonymous'. The vast majority of the Palestinians left of their own free will because they took a bet that the Arab armies would massacre the Jews and that they would return in the vanguard of the jihad army. Why do you think they took all those house keys with them? The transcripts from Egyptian, Jordanian and Syrian radio still exist telling Arabs to evacuate the Jewish areas and let the massacre take its course before returning.
They simply bet on the wrong horse.
The Arabs mostly had a choice the Jewish refugees from the Arab world didn't have. And you know it.
Israel took in its Jewish refugees and integrated them into their country..the Arab countries turned their backs on their `brothers'an dkept them as `refugees'. And that's not Israel's fault.
Based on the way the other Arab countries have treated the `Palestinians', the only chance for a decent life for these people would have been to have friendly relations with their Jewish neighbors.
Instead, with their eyes open, they bet again on being able to drive the Jews into the sea. And that has pretty much doomed them for generations.
Did it ever occur to you that the Jews gave the `Palestinians' some land to call their own and offered to live in peace with them, which is more than the Arabs ever did....and the Israelis got repaid in blood and attacks on their civilian population?
Oh, and by the way..comparing what happened to the Palestinians to the forced ingathering of Jews and the murder of millions is deeply offensive as far as I'm concerned. Even if you were right about 1 million people losing being `driven out of Palestine'..which of course, you're not.
History, if read, states that after WWI, the British carved Palestine from captured lands and turned it over to the Arabs. Palestine, and Palestinians, never existed before this, because it never existed!
ReplyDeleteThen, there is the story of the Exodus, a ship loaded with about 1000 Jewish refugees from WWII that was denied landing in several Mediteranean nations, and finally was allowed to dock and off-load it's passengers in Palestine. The Palestinians were the "good guys" then.
Since the days of the Crusades, Islam has been at odds with Christianity and Judeism, but after WWI & WWII the civilized arab states, Persia, Lebanon, Iraq (Which was also carved out by the British after WWI), Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and a few others had begun to westernize their societies. This ended with the overthrow of the Shah of Iran and the establishment of a religious tyranny by the Ayatollahs in Iran and the power parade to establish Islam as the world's largest religion. So how can the U.S. be blamed for something the British began?
Dick
"Obviously it wasn't a `catastrophy' for the 100,000 or so who decided to stay and become Israelis. They have a more affluent lifestyle and more legal and political freedom on average than Arabs anywhere in the Middle East."
ReplyDeleteThe Arab residents of Israel are the pariahs of Israeli society. They are the ones that refused to be "transferred" out of what was, whether you like it or not, their historic homeland, despite the mortal threat of Israeli sovereignty. Israel does everything it can to prevent them (and the other refugees) from achieving any sort of political influence. This is why Jewish people from the diaspora are granted Israeli citiznship immediately upon arrival in the country, whereas Palestinian refugees who have lived in what is currently Israel for generations are refused the right to return, and Arabs married to Israelis cannot obtain Israeli citizenship. Even Ethiopian *Jews* in Israel are denied entrance to nightclubs and other places because of racism (http://www.ethiomedia.com/courier/beersheva.html); do you expect anyone to believe that Arab Muslims - who are disliked (if not loathed) for their race, religion, and for being a constant reminder of the questionable legitimacy of the state of Israel - have more legal and political freedom and social affluence than Arabs in Arab countries?
Hello, Miriam.
ReplyDeleteNeedless to say, I take exception your views, and would even descibe them as factually challenged.
In the first place, both of us know that Palestine was not the `historic homeland' of any Arab peoples. The Arabs conquered it in the 7th century,but under the Abbasid dynasty of Egypt it retained its basically depopopulated character, except for two mostly Jewish Cities in Jerusalem and Safed.
The Arabs lost `ownership'to the Crusaders a couple of centuries later, and the Turks took it a couple of centuries shortly after that.
The Arab influx to `Palestine' did not begin until the Jews began returning to Israel in the 1880's and creating employment for them.
And the biggest single influx took place during WWII, when over a third of all the Jews in Palestine were in uniform and there was a labor shortage..so the British allowed unlimited Arab migration to Palestine while denying it to Jews.
So much for a `historic homeland'.
In any case, the Arabs already received 80% of `Palestine' in 1923 as a gift from the British..it's called Jordan.
As for the Arabs that stayed merely being the ones `refusing to be tranferred'..I'm afraid that's a blatant falsehood.The declartion from the city Council of Haifa, for instance, imploring the Arabs to stay and live with the Jews in the new Israel and similar documents are a matter of record...just like those radio transcripts and speeches by Arab leaders telling the `Palestinians' to leave until the jihad against the Jews was completed.
Again, why do you think they took those house keys with them?
Face it,Miriam..while some Arabs were forced out by the necesities of war, the vast majority simply made a choice to leave or to stay.
And a lot of them simply bet against the Jews and lost. Why whine about it now?
Here's another point for you to ponder. After the Arab defeat, the arabs ethnically cleansed virtually every Jew in the Arab world. The Jews, on the other hand allowed those Arabs who chose to stay in Israel to continue living in Israel.
What was that about `forced transfers'?
And here's another point I'm sure you'll like...the Jews took in the Jewish refugees from the Arab countries and integrated them into their society - why didn't the Palestinians `Arab brothers' do the same?
I'll tell you what. Let's set up an independent commission of Israelis and representatives of all the Arab countries to make an honest accounting and arbitrate the financial losses of the 400,000 so-called Arab `refugees'from Israel and offset them against the claims of the 800,000 Jewish refugees driven out of the Arab world.
I assure you, the Arabs would come out on the short end of that accounting. You know it, and so do they.
Now me, I know first hand that the majority of Israeli Arabs are fully integrated into Israeli society and are hardly the `pariahs' you enjoy painting them as.
There are Arab legislators in the Knesset, Arab judges, Arab journalists, businessmen and even Arab policemen and IDF soldiers. Arabic is the second official language in Israel and Arabs have full protection under the law as Israeli citizens, as well as the most affluent lifestyle in the rab world. Any wonder that anytime they're polled, even by Palestinian sources that they overwhelmingly want to stay as Israelis?
As for the `right of return' and other examples of Israeli `racism' you mention, do you think that the Palestinian's savagery towards Jews might have a little something to do with it? And if you support a right of return, do the Jews chased out of the Arab world get to go back and reclaim THEIR property?
You're not speaking to someone with no knowledge on this subject Miriam.
Oh yes, the Ethiopians...another indictment against `racist' Israel.
Let's compare the `racism' of Israel, who spent millions of shekels to bribe the Mengitsue government, rescue and transport these Jews to Israel and make them full citizens of the Jewish State with the conduct of the Arab world..including the Palestinians..towards Black people in Darfur, shall we?
Israel isn't perfect, and I wouldn't say that it's without racism, just like any other country. People are people. But the truth is that Israel, unlike the Arab world is a multi-racial and largely just society...and the Arab world isn't.
Thanks for dropping by.
Dear Sir,
ReplyDeleteI happened to find your blog by looking for some "echoes" about that interview, mainly being interested in how it was perceived by average TV viewer. Unfortunatelly it is very sad the way you try to zero it, if I may say that. Your remarks are unnecessary and in most of the cases they are wrong. The fact that you watched that interview, shows that you have at least some interest in this subject so probably mine intervention here worths the effort. I will not try to convince you about anything...
It`s important to understand that these kind of "perspectives" rarely end up in US/european media, so probably for most of the people when they face it, it is almost impossible to give up prejudices and listen and try to weight these opinions themselves (without any "help" from what they were previously innoculated with).
I don`t say that Ahmadinejad holds the absolut truth, or the US, UK, Israeli etc are all wrong, but it is our duty to try to listen every side, put informations together and draw our own conclusions instead of "assimilating" what others try to draw for us.
I guess that instead of trying to explain you why do I think you are wrong, I will just recommend to you (and others who are really interested to understand why history, including contemporary, is not what we see on TV) to search on p2p, xdcc, torrent etc networks for a few materials to watch/read and I`m sure that you`ll change your perspective. Keywords: chomsky, palast, bbc4, channel4, kissinger, For Your Information (various subjects, 4 collections by now)
Remember that ignorance has a very high price and in the end who "pays the bills" are innocent ordinary people and not rulers (politicians or corporations).
Your comments, as Anonymous stated, are not all very accurate. The IDF has indeed had a presence in Lebanon since 1982, even after the "pull-out". Shebaa Farms in the south and the nearly weekly "security" patrols that the IDF makes into the area south of the Litani to apprehend those they believe are linked to Hizballah. I am far from defending Iranian policy in Lebanon, but you need to do some research on the subject before making these kinds of remarks if you wish to be seen as an intelligent observer.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous #1 - you're entitled, even if you're dead wrong.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous#2 - first of all, when Israel pulled out of South lebanon it first went to the UN and made sure that Israel and the UN's idea of what constituted `lebanon' we're identical..and in neither case did it include Mt. Dov/Sha'baa Farms.
That's error#1 on your part.
As for the IDF keeping the Hezbollah facilities under surveillance...what would you expect, with a genocidal enemy on its borders? UNIFIL obvious wasn't doing squat to keep Hezbollah away from Israel, were they?
Perhaps if Hezbollah obeyed UN resolutions 1551 and 1701 and disarmed, Israel wouldn't need to watch them so closely, now would it?
And you question my being an intelligent observer? Please.
Thanks for dropping by.