Forum: Is Islam Compatible With A Free Society?

Every week on Monday, the Council, members of the Watcher's Council Community and our invited guests weigh in at the Watcher's Forum, short takes on a major issue of the day, the culture, or daily living. This week's question:Is Islam Compatible With A Free Society?

 The Glittering Eye : Of course it is. To the same extent as Christianity or Judaism is.

Islam is inclusive of more diversity of beliefs than Christianity and enormously more than Judaism. Within it is contained variants that are completely compatible with a free society, whatever radical conservatives within Islam and foes of Islam of other confessions might think.

The question is somewhat beside the point. For me the much more important question is whether Wahhabist/Salafist Islam is compatible with a free society and to that question the answer is “No” and, honestly, I think that those who profess the Wahhabist/Salafist versions of Islam would agree with me.

The additional challenge is that the Wahhabist/Salafist variants of Islam are on the rise, largely propelled by the money of Gulf Arabs, not just among the Gulf states but everywhere including the West. Something like three-quarters of all imams in the United States are foreign born, most of those are Saudis, and a distressingly large proportion of those hold to very conservative Wahhabist/Salafist beliefs.

Then the question is what is to be done?


Stately McDaniel Manor : Islam is not compatible with individual or societal freedom. This is not merely an unfortunate side effect, an unintended, unforeseeable consequence of Islam, but its very nature. “Islam” means “submission,” which definition and all of its connotations must be taken very seriously indeed.

Islam is not a religion as Americans define religion. It is rather a political, moral, philosophical, military system with some religious trappings. It’s reason for being, its goal, is to conquer the world and impose, by force of arms, on every human being, Islam. One need not infer this. The Koran plainly and unambiguously requires it.

Islam is an invention of a medieval, tribal mindset, yet is an attempt to unite all tribes under the Islamic banner. The tribal mindset is still very much a part of much of the world, and particularly the Middle East. Americans tend to think of themselves as Americans first, and every other identity category thereafter. A Methodist American is still an American. A Catholic American is still an American. Not so with Islam.

Muslims are Muslims, first, last and always. Islam does not recognize the concept of nations, governments, allegiance to the values and rule of law that are the heart of America. Americans swear allegiance to the Constitution, but worship God as a member of one of many denominations, denominations that peacefully coexist under the Constitution. Americans also sometimes choose not to worship God, or even to acknowledge His existence. In America, we take to heart the wise counsel of the Founding Father most responsible for religious liberty, Thomas Jefferson, who said:

“But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, of no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. …Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error.”

The Koran, however, exhorts Muslims not only to enslave the world, but to kill all that resist. It actually goes into specific methods of killing, and holds particularly enmity for Jews. It’s fascinating, and horrifying that it is the Muslims that kill in the name of Islam that are following the words of its prophet. Muslims that wish only to live in peace, and that are willing to follow the American rule of law are not following the very specific and bloody dictates of their faith.

This is in part why most Muslims do not actively criticize jihadists or take active measures to reform Islam. Not only are jihadists actually acting on the letter and intent of their faith, they are more than willing to kill other Muslims that disagree with them.

Islam holds women and children to be of little value, essentially possessions of men. One need not spend much Google time to discover Islam is completely incompatible with every form of liberty for women. Fascinating too is the willingness of American leftists to ignore this horrific side of Islam. Cut out a girl’s clitoris without anesthetic? Grope and rape women at will? Beat women as a religious duty? Hey, we have to honor diversity! Who are we to judge other cultures?

It is probably true that most Muslims will never take the path of jihad. However, we’ll never know their actual numbers, annoying jihadists tending to result in torture, mutilation and death and all. It is equally true that huge numbers of non-violent Muslims are sympathetic to the acts and goals of jihadists, support Sharia, and actively lobby against assimilation and for the establishment of Muslim no-go zones within democratic nations, zones ruled by Sharia. Great Britain has allowed the establishment of no less then 88 Sharia courts, abandoning the rule of law for all.

But we must accept Islam and let any Muslim into America. Refusing to do that is not who we are, as Barack Hussein Obama says. Forget, for the sake of argument, that there is no one less fit to identify American values than Barack Obama. “We can’t deport Muslims that want to establish a caliphate in America! It’s unconstitutional!”

People expressing that moronic opinion might want to spend a bit of time actually reading the Constitution. Americans have the absolute right to establish immigration laws, and may deport foreign nationals at will. For citizens, native-born or naturalized, a brief visit to 18 U.S. Code Chapter 115 might be equally instructive. The overall point is that the Constitution and laws of the United States cannot be interpreted to be a suicide pact, unless of course, we wish to embrace Islam.

Islam recognizes no individual liberty, and no authority but Islam. Such people cannot assimilate, nor can they faithfully accept and follow the American rule of law, which though under constant attack during the Age of Obama, is the foundation of American uniqueness and liberty.

JoshuaPundit : Looking at what Islam has wrought during its history and what it continues to produce today answers the question.

I have Muslims in my life who are decent, fine people. But in all but two instances, they are secular Muslims. The two devout Muslims I'm close to practice a faith primarily based on Mohammed's early, peaceful Mecca Qu'ran and would be regarded as heretics by most Sunni and Shiah. ISIS, al-Qaeda, al Nusra, The Muslim Brotherhood and it's Islamist offshoots, the wahabbis, Boko Haram, Lakshar e Tiaba, etc. are actually much more faithful to what the Qu'ran demands than the Muslims I know. The money and momentum in Islam is with jihad.

In Islam, the peaceful Mecca Qu'ran has been almost entirely superseded by the violent Medina Qu'ran via Islam's Doctrine of Abrogation, something accepted by all four major fiqhs (Muslim schools of religious dogma and jurisprudence).

When you read the Qu'ran and hadiths and see what's in them, the ridiculous nature of the term 'radical Islam ' become very clear. Islam is Islam. Among other things, Islam has nothing comparable to what we would call the Golden Rule. What passes for it in Islam only pertains to fellow Muslims, not kuffars, non-believers. They can be murdered, raped, openly deceived and enslaved as long as it advances Islam. While many Muslims choose to ignore this, many others do not and the religion encourages this behavior. To be a non-Muslim under Muslim rule means to be bled white with jizra, the protection money demanded by Muslims from the conquered, to have no legal rights at all except the right to life as decreed by the changing whim of Muslims.

The whole history of Islam and its death toll of over two hundred million people as well as millions enslaved tells us all we need to know about that. Islam doesn't play well with others.

While Muslims are able to live in a free society if they accommodate their beliefs to our norms and culture, Islam is totally incompatible. Our current leaders frequently make the point that WE have to change our laws, customs and norms to accommodate Islam. The reverse is true, and any sane society demands it.

The way to end this war - and that's what it is - is exactly the way we defeated the Nazis and Japan...by securing our homelands, by destroying Islam's armed might where necessary, by attacking them economically, by discrediting their ideology and by making the consequences of any attack on us so horrendous in cost as to be unthinkable.

If we had done that after 9/11, we wouldn't even be talking about this now.


Well, there you have it.

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