Friday, August 03, 2007

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: `Islam is a religion.. with violence and oppression at its heart.'

The Washington Post has been running a series on Islam entitled `On Faith' featuring various voices of Islam.

Until now,the series has been dominated by Islamists like Tariq Ramadan who have done an excellent job of taqiya ( dissembling to unbelievers to advance Islam), but this week it's Ayaan Hirsi Ali's turn:
The undisputed definition of Islam by all her adherents is “submission to the will of Allah.” This divine will is outlined in the Koran and in the teachings and deeds of Muhammad, as recorded in the Hadith or Sunna. {...)

On the issues of holy war (jihad), apostasy and the treatment of women, the Koran and Sunna are clear. It is the obligation of every Muslim to spread Islam to unbelievers first through dawa, or proselytizing, then through jihad, if the unbelievers refuse to convert. It is the obligation of the unbelievers to accept Islam. Exempted from this edict of conversion are the people of the book: Christians and Jews. Both peoples have a choice. They may adopt Islam and enjoy the same rights as other Muslims, or they may stick to their book and lead the life of a dhimmi (lower citizen). Legally, the rights of the dhimmi are not equal to those of a Muslim. For instance, a Muslim man may take a Jewish or Christian wife, but Jews and Christians are not allowed to marry Muslim women. If a Christian or a Jew kills a Muslim man, they should be killed immediately. In contrast, the blood of a Muslim should never be shed in recompense for the blood of Christians or Jews.


Under sharia law (Islamic law), such as governs in Saudi Arabia, Iran and parts of Nigeria, the civil rights of women are dramatically reduced. Threat of violent punishment in the form of whipping and stoning makes the prospect of financial independence and sexual freedom for women all but impossible. Miraculously, even in such harsh circumstances you will find women who are relatively well educated, have some say in choosing a husband and manage to earn a living. Let us be clear that these exceptions are due to the compassion and progressiveness of families who have been influenced by the West, and not to rules derived from Islam.{...}

...the western world would be wise to recognize the realities of Islam, a religion laid down in writing over a millennium ago with violence and oppression at its heart.

Read the whole thing here

To my Muslim readers, I would only add this...we both know that there are many decent people who practice Islam, just as we also know that there are great many who use it as a vehicle of violent domination and terrorism against `the other', and Ali, a Muslim apostate makes that same point.

In order to end this, it will be necessary for both decent Muslims and non-Muslims to confront this violent, oppressive, imperialist streak in Islam head on..and I urge you to take that stand.


Anonymous said...

Give us a break. Are you expecting Muslims to take seriously the words of an immigration fraud? A woman who told lies to get a refugee visa?

This woman knows bugger-all about the multiplicity of Muslim societies she comments on. Her knowledge of Islamic theologies is minimal. Her sole exposure is to Somali and Saudi forms of Islam. She has little or no idea of how Islam manifests itself in countries such as Indonesia, Bosnia, South Africa and other parts of the world.

You then talk about taqiyya like a typical f#cking idiotic American conservative moron. What would you know of taqiyya? Or do you just read the sh!t you read on that pedophile Spencer's website?

To suggest that Islam is a violent faith because of the actions of a minority of terrorists is as nutty as suggesting that Catholicism is a faith that teaches pedophilia just because Catholic priests (including the Pope) have been involved in covering up the sexual abuses by Catholic priests.

Still, if conservative idiots want to demonise an Abrahamic faith as a means of fighting 'terror', they can be my guest. One day you'll realise you cannot destroy 1.2 billion people. When that day comes, you go back to fighting the people you really hate - the Jews. Then Muslims will have to salvage Jews again from your murderous Christian fanaticism.

Freedom Fighter said...

Hi Anonymous,
No, based on your screed I don't expect you to take her word seriously in the least, frankly. Although,as I'm sure members of JoshuaPundit ( and pretty much every other non-Muslim) will notice, you don't refute her factually in the least.

As for me being..uh, what was it..`a typical f#cking idiotic American conservative moron' who hates Jews, it's obvious you don't spend much time at JoshuaPundit. If you did, you would know:

(1)that we have certain rules here about namecalling and civil dialogue (I'll excuse you since you're new)

(2)I'm quite knowledgeable about the Qu'ran and the Hadiths ( and BTW, as a Muslim, I'd watch who you call a pedophile. Mohammed's favorite wife Aisha was all of nine when the fifty-year old prophet consummated their marriage,no?)

(3) While I'm not a `murderous Christian fanatic' somehow I don't see Christians as the primary engine of Jew hatred today. the last time I checked, it was the Qu'ran and the Hadiths that were absolutely rife with Jew hatred, Muslim nations who now threaten a second Holocaust and mainstream Muslims who are attacking, murdering and demonizing Jews...and who, along with certain Europeans bear a primary responsibility for the death toll of the Holocaust. If you bother to comment again, I would be charmed to explain how that worked for you, in all it's sordid detail.

Not all Muslims are violent, and I believe I've made that distinction many times. But Ayaan Ali is correct that violence and oppression is at the heart of the faith, and based on recent history it is a factor for much more than a `tiny minority of terrorists'.

Part of the problem is denial by many Muslims that there is something in Islam that is very much in need of repair. Fortunately,there are Muslims like Irshad Manji and others who are working to change this.


Bigmo said...

The Quran(Koran) Concerning other monotheist faiths:

Not all of them are alike; a party of the people of the Scripture stand for the right, they recite the Verses of God during the hours of the night, prostrating themselves in prayer. They believe in God and the Last Day; they enjoin good and forbid wrong; and they hasten in good works; and they are among the righteous. And whatever good they do, nothing will be rejected of them; for God knows well those who are God fearing. 3:113-115

And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture, those who believe in God and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before God. They do not sell the Verses of God for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, God is Swift in account. 3:199

Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve . 2:62

Say: "O people of the Scripture : Come to a word that is just between us and you, that we worship none but God, and that we associate no partners with Him, and that none of us shall take others as lords besides God. 3:64

And they say: "None shall enter Paradise unless he be a Jew or a Christian." Those are their (vain) desires. Say: "Produce your proof if ye are truthful."Nay,-whoever submits His whole self to God and is a doer of good,- He will get his reward with his Lord; on such shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but God will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment. 2.111-113

If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them 4.124

The Quran(Koran) Concerning who we fight or don't:

As for such who do not fight you on account of faith, or drive you forth from your homelands, God does not forbid you to show them kindness and to deal with them with equity, for God loves those who act equitably. God only forbids you to turn in friendship towards such as fight against you because of faith and drive you forth from your homelands or aid in driving you forth. As for those from among you who turn towards them for alliance, it is they who are wrongdoers. 60:8-9

Permission (to fight) is given to those against whom war is being wrongfully waged, and verily, God has indeed the power to aid them. Those who have been driven from their homelands in defiance of right for no other reason than their saying, ‘Our Lord is God.’ 22:39-40

The Quran(Koran) Concerning freedom:

2:256 There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing.

16:82 But if they turn away from you, your only duty is a clear delivery of the Message .

6:107 Yet if God had so willed, they would not have ascribed Divinity to aught besides Him; hence, We have not made you their keeper, nor are you a guardian over them.

4:79-80 Say:'Whatever good betides you is from God and whatever evil betides you is from your own self and that We have sent you to mankind only as a messenger and all sufficing is God as witness. Whoso obeys the Messenger, he indeed obeys God. And for those who turn away, We have not sent you as a keeper."

11:28 He (Noah) said "O my people! think over it! If I act upon a clear direction from my Lord who has bestowed on me from Himself the Merciful talent of seeing the right way, a way which you cannot see for yourself, does it follow that we can force you to take the right path when you definitely decline to take it?°

17:53-54 And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner. Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is mans foe .... Hence, We have not sent you with power to determine their Faith.

21:107-109 (O Prophet?) 'We have not sent you except to be a mercy to all mankind:" Declare, "Verily, what is revealed to me is this, your God is the only One God, so is it not up to you to bow down to Him?' But if they turn away then say, "I have delivered the Truth in a manner clear to one and all, and I know not whether the promised hour is near or far."

22:67 To every people have We appointed ceremonial rites which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but bid them to turn to your Lord. You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, `God best knows what you do."

24.54. Say: "Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger. but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message).

88:21 22; And so, exhort them your task is only to exhort; you cannot compel them to believe.

48:28 He it is Who has sent forth His Messenger with the Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to the end that tie make it prevail over every religion, and none can bear witness to the Truth as God does.

36:16 17 (Three Messengers to their people) Said, "Our Sustainer knows that we have indeed been sent unto you, but we are not bound to more than clearly deliver the Message entrusted to us.'

39:41 Assuredly, We have sent down the Book to you in right form for the good of man. Whoso guided himself by it does so to his own advantage, and whoso turns away from it does so at his own loss. You certainly are not their keeper.

42:6 48 And whoso takes for patrons others besides God, over them does God keep a watch. Mark, you are not a keeper over them. But if they turn aside from you (do not get disheartened), for We have not sent you to be a keeper over them; your task is but to preach ....

64:12 Obey God then and obey the Messenger, but if you turn away (no blame shall attach to our Messenger), for the duty of Our Messenger is just to deliver the message.

67:25 26 And they ask, "When shall the promise be fulfilled if you speak the Truth?" Say, "The knowledge of it is verily with God alone, and verily I am but a plain warner."

The Quran(Koran) concerning justice:

"And among His signs are the creation of the heaven and earth, and the variation in your language and your colors; verily in that are signs for those who know" (30:22).

"Satan seeks only to cast among you enmity and hate"(5:91).

O you who believe! Stand out for justice, as witnesses to God, and even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be rich or poor. An-Nisaa’ 4:134

"O you who believe! Be the maintainers of justice and bearers of witness for God's sake though it be against your own self, parents and relatives" (4:135).

"O you mankind! We have created you from a single pair of male and female and made you into nations and tribes so that you know each other. Verily the most honored in the sight of God is the one who is most righteous" (49:13).

O you who believe! Stand out firmly for God, as witnesses to fair dealing, and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just: that is next to piety and fear God, for God is well acquainted with all that you do. 5:8

And thus We made of you a justly balanced community that you might bear witness to humankind and the Apostle might bear witness over you. 2:143

O you who believe, observe your duty to God with right observance, and die not except in a state of submission (to Him). And hold fast, all of you together, to the rope of God, and do not separate, and remember God's favor unto you: how you were enemies and He put love between your hearts so that you became as brothers by His grace: and how you were upon the brink of a fire and He saved you from it. Thus God makes clear His revelations unto you so that you may be guided" (3:102-103).

"The believers are nothing else other than brothers, Thus make peace between your brethren and observe your duty to God that you may haply receive His mercy" (49: 1 0).

The Quran(Koran) Concerning propagation:

Invite (all humankind) to the path of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation and argue with them in the most kindly manner, for, indeed, your Lord knows best as to who strays from His path, and best who are the right-guided. (16:125)

Had your Lord so willed, all those who live on earth would surely have attained faith, will you then compel people, against their will, to believe? 10:99

And We have not sent you, but as mercy to all the worlds. 21:107

Islam is peace

Freedom Fighter said...

Hello Mohamed,
Now, I could handle this in various ways.Just as you've cherry picked various quotations from the Qu'ran that show Islam's peaceful,tolerant side, I could come up with many other examples of verses that show up Islam's violent racist side.

Or I could cite examples of Islamic intolerance and violence as a sarcastic counterpoint.That would be unfair to the many Muslims who are courageously trying to practice peace and tolerance.

It's better, I think that I go back to a bit of wisdom from the scriptures I'm particularly fond of ` By their deeds ye shall know them.'

And we can simply look at the historical record and modern times, and in particular the life, times and sayings of your namesake Mohammed as given in the Hadiths to see how the Qu'ran is interpeted by far too many Muslims.

First of all, I respect any Muslim who is conciously trying to come up with a peaceful and moderate version of the faith, especially given the Saudi/Wahabi emphasis given nowadays.You will find links to some of them on this site. But denial is silly, and will ultimately destroy Muslims.

First off, let's get abrogation out of the way. As I'm sure you know, almost all Muslim religious authorities support the doctrine of abrogation, which states that certain verses have priority over others, In almost every case, these are the violent, jihad promoting verses that take precedence.

The bit about `homelands' and `permitted war' is particularly deceiving. It sounds nice until you know that Islam devides the world into `dar Islam' (the part ruled by Muslims) and `dar harb'
(literally `the place of war' the part ruled by non-Muslims)an dthat Muslim `homelands' include any of the land ruthlessly conqured by Muslims, including the present day Spain, Portugal, India, Israel, the Balkans, Greece and Armenia.

As Mohammed said many times `War is deception.' Unfortunately, that only works for so long.

You also conspicuously leave out the influence of Mohammed and the Hadiths on Islam. Mohammed is the Muslim paradigm, the example all Muslims seek to follow.

This is the man who began his career in Saudi Arabia by massacreing and enslaving the Jews of Medina who had taken him in after his flight ( hejira) from Mecca, who slaughtered tribes after they had surrendered, who raped captive women literally infront of the corpses of their lovesd ones,who said that no other religion would be allowed to exist in Arabia and who said to his followers right before he died in 632CE that they should fight the unbelievers until they either died, converted to Islam or paid monetary tribute to the Muslims and `felt themselves subdued'.

Muslims took him at his word and more people have been killed and enslaved by Islam than any other faith. And that includes now, in modern times.

It is difficult to credit the Qu'rannic verses extolling tolerance and lack of compulsion in religion when one studies the dhimmi second class status historically suffered by non-Muslims in areas ruled by Islam, even in our present day.

Or when one reads about what has befallen Christians in Pakistan, Indonesia, Iran, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere.

Here's the bottom line Mohamed. You believe Islam is peace and tolerance, even though it really means submission.

I charge you, therefore with practicing what you preach, even if it means fighting some of your fellow Muslims who perform horrendous atrocities against innocent people.

If you are willing to practice peace and tolerance and defend freedom of religion, even if it means taking a stand against those Muslims who would deny it to others, you have my respect and my hand in friendship.

Otherwise, what you've written is a collosal exercise in taqiya.

I'm prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt, but that is in fact the litmus test.