Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Michele Bachmann On The Founding Fathers Working To End Slavery – 100% Correct

Ex-Clintonista George Stephanopoulos did his very best to torpedo Michele Bachmann yesterday on his 'news' show. In the course of his extremely smarmy interview, he asked her about a quote of hers to the effect that the Founding Fathers worked tirelessly to end slavery, citing that Washington and Jefferson, among others, were slave owners.

While Bachmann countered by mentioning John Quincy Adams, who was his father's secretary, the fact is that the Founding Fathers, or at least the majority of them did indeed work tirelessly to end slavery, and while they failed in the immediate sense, they succeeded in that they laid the groundwork for slavery's demise 70 years later.

An excellent read on the matter is a brilliant book called Miracle in Philadelphia, by Catherine Drinker Bowen which recounts the actual history and debates around the Constitutional Convention in 1787.

Slavery was a huge issue during that convention, and many of the Founding Fathers wanted it outlawed, but ran into an impasse after many hours of debate with the southern colonies whose agricultural productivity depended on it.

The Founders who wanted to set the stage for the abolition of slavery came up with a brilliant compromise, involving the issue of apportionment.

The southern colonies that favored slavery wanted all residents of their states, slave and free, counted equally when it came to deciding how many seats they were going to receive in Congress. Some of the northern colonies, who mostly had few slaves and thus nothing to lose didn't want slave residents counted at all.

The Founder's compromise was to count each slave as 3/5 of a man for the purposes of apportionment, and when that passed after a great deal more debate and lobbying, legislators from the slave states were permanently limited to a minority. With that one stroke, the state was set for slavery's eventual demise, and the proof of how effective it was came in 1804, when the slave states were powerless to stop Congress from outlawing the importation of slaves to the new nation.

The stage was set, even if it took 70 years and a bloody war.

So it's Rep. Michele Bachmann who's correct and knows her history - not George Stephanopuolos.

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OreamnosAmericanus said...

Few Americans realize that Article 1, Section 9 set a 20 year limit date for the end of the slave trade. And Congress, on that basis, made it a capital offense in 1808.

Montana said...

All hail to Astroturf TeaBparty Queen (ATQ), Michele Bachmann. Isn’t she the one that who rails against the Federal Government while every year she benefits from farm subsidies and adopts kids to work them on same farm. Oh yeah she is also a self-proclaimed historian on the US Founding Fathers and US history. The sad truth she will lie to get her way, what honor is there in that? But if you manipulate our US history and double down when you are found out, well don’t go crying to Fake News when you lose. Kind of like the Former half-term Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (Most recent quitter of her Bus Tour to restore America). We remember what happen when after “W” manipulate Florida (w/ the help of brother Jebb) to win the presidency and his failure to win any of the two wars he started that devastated our treasury and ruined our economy for the next 50 years. If the GOP thinks that Michele Bachmann is the answer, good luck with that. After her “John Wayne” mishap and Tom Petty, calling her a thief, well you know, same old Bachmann, you have a winner GOP.

louielouie said...

see what happens when you get noticed ff. they assign all these freaks, like montana, to monitor your site.
back to business:
So it's Rep. Michele Bachmann who's correct and knows her history - not George Stephanopuolos.
like any of the libtards would care what the founding fathers, or the constitution for that matter, would say.
they loathe both.

Rob said...

I let this through for just one reason..because I was fascinated in how many lies and outright defamation 'Montana' could fit into one spittle soaked paragraph..and all without addressing what I actually wrote with any facts whatsoever!

The biggest ones:
1)Prove to me that the Bachmanns adopt foster kids solely as farm labor. You obviously have no knowledge of the foster care program. and its oversight

2)I just proved to you that she was entirely correct about the Founding Fathers. So who's lying here, her or you?

3) Sarah Palin 'quit' her bus tour because she was called for jury service.

4) Bush won Florida by every recount, even with the Dems denying over 2,00o perfectly legal military votes. Deal with it.

5)The wreckage of our economy came from the CRA and from the Dems shielding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from oversight, particularly Barney Frank who was watching out for his boyfriend whom he got a job there. Plus, if you check with the CBO, you'll see that the real craziness started in January, 2006...when Pelosi and the Dems took over both Houses of Congress.

6) Tom Petty is lucky anyone is playing his stuff, and legally as long as he receives mechanical royalties, he can't do squat about it.

Tell me Montana..were you always a lying, hostile sack of dog manure,or was it something you had to work at?

Tell Axlerod I said hello.


my log-in word was flation said...

Rob -

Don't see a point in even thinking about Bachmann. But I do have a question. You say:

I let this through for just one reason.

The fact that you choose to decide which comments go through or not says one (or all) of 6 things:

1) You're scared of dissenting opinion.

2) You're scared of looking like a fool when someone calls you out.

3) You're not interested in having any interesting debate on your site.

4)You're not interested in growing as a thinker. If all you get are pats on the back, you're not being challenged one bit.

5) You come across as insanely petty.

6) You disrespect the people who read your site and want to be involved.

I noticed that louielouie above is free to call people 'freaks' and 'libtards' on your site (and calls people many other names regularly). Is this what you consider good discourse? You're approving it, so I assume so. So what scares so much?

This won't be posted, of course.

Rob said...

I have no problem whatsoever answering your question.

I fully favor free speech, but there's no such thing as a 'right to be heard'. As such, this is my site, and I decide what comes in and what doesn't.In th ebeginning, I let everything through when this site was less popular, and once traffic picked up I simply had no choice but to put in comment moderation.

My criterion for what I let in might surprise you.

If you hang around here any length of time,you'll note that this isn't an echo chamber, and a number of commenters disagree with me, so disagreement per se..especially if it's reasoned, opens up debate in a good way or challenges what I have to say based on a factual POV is never a problem.

I also screen for libel, obvious and blatant untruths, spam, profanity or racial slurs for obvious reasons.

I occasionally let certain stuff in for sheer entertainment value, i.e an idiot like Montana, just like a talk radio screener sometimes lets in jerks just for laughs. Radio talk show host Tom Likus once did an hour of his show completely unscreened just to show what happens if you don't.

Too much stupidity and and ranting gets boring to an audience after awhile, just like too much of an echo chamber does. Just ask Air America.

I'm neither afraid of dissenting opinion or 'scared' of being proven wrong...but tell me: do you really think Montana's post was actually opinion or 'proved' anything? I chose to answer it strictly for my own amusement.

You're certainly welcome to think anything of me you wish, but if you want your comments to appear, try actually coming up with a rational argument.

You probably won't accomplish much, since in my experience the Left doesn't really have a lot of what you'd call rational arguments, but I guarantee you that in most cases, your comment will be posted and you might even get an answer.

louielouie said...

uh, that's not name calling.
it's fact.
you forgot, as all libtards do, to include #7. it's his site. he can do what ever he wants.
he does routinely call me to task. you would know that. if you came here.
there is after all a difference between spittle and discourse.
what you absolutely can't stand is for someone else to have a different opinion from your talking points. independent thought is not allowed.
thanks for admitting you have nothing to say about the posted thread topic.
i promise i won't tell your superiors/monitors.
troll on.

louielouie said...

ff, in your response to whathisname you said:

the Left doesn't really have a lot of what you'd call rational arguments,

you're not really thinking the left can determine/define "rational arguments" are you?

Rosey said...

Like Palin, Bachman is getting "Swift Boated" to borrow a phrase. Bachman is one hell of a congresswoman, one of a handful of gems in the cesspool. I'm not sure she is presidential material, but I certainly took notice of the Iowa polls this week. It is a shame the situation with the state run media and how they can get a guy like Bambam elected, and smear good souls like Palin & Bachman with impunity...Did some one say something about a sack o' hair?

Anonymous said...

Interesting how the truth gets skewed. Here is what Bachmann said, verbatim:

"But, we also know that the very founders that wrote those documents worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States..."

Let's be honest here, Bachmann is NOT saying "... that the Founding Fathers, or at least the majority of them did indeed work tirelessly to end slavery...?

Bachmann is saying that the people who wrote the Declaration of Independence and The Constitution " worked tirelessly until slavery was no more in the United States..."

And, that is simply wrong. Facts are stubborn things. You can parse it all you want. Read the sentence.

Rob said...

Actually she's made that statement several different ways Anonymous, but for the sake of argument, let's deal with what you're quoting here.

The chief hook you're attempting to hang her on is 'until slavery was no more.'

Read one way, it's technically incorrect. Read another way, it's correct but merely clumsily phrased, because the Founders did work to attempt to ensure slavery would be no more ( as I and commenter SF Male have pointed out ) and did in fact work tirelessly to lay the groundwork for its destruction, thus working tirelessly until slavery would be no more.

Either way, I see her as being correct in essence, and am far less troubled by her remark than I am by those of another prominent politician now in the White House who says we have 57 states, are one of the largest Muslim countries in the world, can't tell a dead Medal of Honor winner from a live one without a teleprompter,gets the name of the president of Brazil wrong, and thinks Austrians speak Austrian among many other faux paux - all without getting pilloried by the dinosaur media.

And those are just a few samples of this president's gaffes let alone his actions.

I prefer Michelle Bachmann's slightly clumsy phrasing, thanks.


bristol wine cooler said...

Everyone misspeaks from time to time - and if I was constantly under the glare of tv cameras, I'm sure I would slip up and say some stupid things too.

The difference is that Obama slips up and admits that he misspoke or got something wrong. Palin and Bachmann double down on their stupidity. Bachmann could simply say "I stated that clumsily, what I meant was..." But they absolutely refuse to admit they made a mistake as if that would make them look weak instead of humble. I'm willing to bet that there's an army of republicans on wikipedia right now, trying to rewrite history (because facts are stubborn things) about John Wayne and John Wayne Gacy...

(reasoned argument = not getting posted)

Rob said...

'Obama has admitted his mistakes'??

Could you even write that with a straight face? With the exception of mistaking a live medal of honor winner for a dead one, he hasn't..and it didn't come from him personally but from 'the White house'.

The problem with Bachmann admitting she stated that clumsily is that the dinosaur media would make headlines out of any admission of error forever, just as they did with Governor Palin. And as we've seen, if there isn't anything, they'll simply make it up.

BTW, two things I might mention. First it only takes one person to edit Wikipedia ( one reason it's not the most credible of sources) and you have no proof it was a 'Republican' rather than a Bachmann foe trying to make it look like one of her supporters did it.

Second, don't show up with a cute handle like 'Bristol's Wine Cooler' unless you expect not to get comments posted. There's someone who admitted her mistakes and is getting ridiculed for it by you, which in fact proves the point I made above.

Not cool, not funny and indeed, somewhat juvenile. Please avoid it in the future.


Montana said...

You know what this current crowd of GOP liars want is to turn the United Sates into China, where only a few giant corporations run things, they own the factories, the apartments, the grocery stores, the gas stations, the newspaper and magazine publications, the radio stations, the television stations and you pay them and they get all the benefits, and if you do not like it go jump off cliff. Well some Chinese workers seeing that as individuals that they cannot progress have done just that by committing suicide. The current crowd of GOP liars want to abolish Medicare from the elderly, they want to abolish a woman’s right to choose and have control over her own body, they want to abolish collective bargaining rights for our Unions, and on top of it all they want to blame the poor, the middle class and the public sector workers for a recession that the GOP created (Thanks to the Dullard "W"), while their beloved “Fat cats” continue to pay themselves exorbitant salaries, bonuses, fringe benefits. Yes this is the GOP “Radical Right-Wing Social Engineering” that they dream about. The win in New York was the beginning but the next will be Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin and later the other states of our nation, watch out we are coming for you!

Rob said...

Should I? Nah too easy.

Besides, this genuinely stupid rant has an entertainment value all it's own.

The really funny part is that if you substitute 'Democrats' every place it had 'GOP', 'Left Wing' for 'Right Wing' and 'Obama Administration officials' for 'Fat Cats', it actually starts to get pretty close to reality.

BizzarroWorld lives!