Thursday, August 14, 2008

Poland Okays Agreement With US On Missile Defense

The first result of Russia's invasion of Georgia is already evident, as the Poles decided to hustle along an agreement with the US that's been cooking for months and sign an agreement with the US to allow placement of a US missile defense facilty on its soil, and to modernize Poland's armed forces with US arms and training:

``We are now harvesting the fruit of many months of hard work,'' said Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski at a joint press conference with U.S. Undersecretary of State John Rood in Warsaw. ``Only people of ill intent should fear this agreement.''

Talks on locating part of the planned missile-defense shield on Polish territory made headway yesterday in the wake of the Georgian conflict.


I'll just bet they did.


8 comments:

B.Poster said...

This missle defense system, as it was inittially proposed, is being designed as a system to defend against missle attakks from Iran, North Korea, or another country who might launch a limited attack. The type of system that the parties have been negotiating on for these many months is completely inadequate to defend against Russia, as this was not what it was being designed to do.

For this system to have any utility, the system would need to be upgraded significantly. Perhaps the parties have decided to do this.

Building this will only antagonize Russia further, so the system needs to be somehting that actually has a chance to work. Also, there is the issue of trust. In the wake of the Russian invasion of Georgia and NATO's weak response, the leaders of these countries must be asking themselves hard questions. Specifically can America be trusted?

Freedom Fighter said...

Hi Poster,
Actually, the US missile defense systems were always designed to contain Russia - just in case.Did you really think otherwise, given Russia's behavior?

They feature the Israeli/US joint venture Green Pine Radar, which is more than a match for what the Russians have.Also, notice that the Poles were smart enough to hold out for modernization and training of their armed forces, and that the leaders of Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, The Ukraine and Estonia went to Georgia to demonstrate solidarity and that the Ukraine cancelled Russian use of its Black Sea Ports.

Expect a renewed push to bring them into NATO, with US sponsor ship...the Russians may just have gotten their last easy victory, especially if McCain is the next president.

Regards,
ff

louielouie said...

i disagree with b.poster, the NATO response was MUCH LESS THAN weak.........
i suppose the reason myself being personally so jacked about this so-called-situation, is the number of people who come into my favorite liquor store in tulsa and criticized the US military action in the wake of 9/11/01, and who are currently coming into my favorite liquor store in tulsa simply glowing with pride.
the majority being high school teachers.
i suppose if i wanted to run for teacher of the year, all i would have to know is america bad, russia good.
what i should not be surprised at is the lack of outcry from the media for the deliberate targeting of journalists in this theater.
it seems the only ones i hear about/from are those NEXT on the soviet union's list.

B.Poster said...

Freedom Fighter

You write: "Actually, the US missle defense systems were always designed to contain Russia - just in case did you think otherwise given Russia's behavior." Actually the system was not designed to defend against Russia. American officials from the State Department have tried to make this abundantly clear from the beginning. As for Russia's behavior, I think it indicates that they are looking for some excuse to fight the Americans. Also, it indicates that they want their old colonies back. Such reactions against a system that, as originally proposed, would be inadequate to contain Russia and that does not have an offensive capability that could threaten Russia seems misplaced. However, it would make sense if Russia wants an excuse to take on America and they want their old colonies back.

Maybe the parties have privately agreed to upgrade the system that they were initially negotiating on. It must be private because this morning American reiterated that the system is designed to defend against rogue states such as Iran and North Korea. With that said even a missle defense system to defend against those countries would have to be expandable. Maybe this concerns the Russians.

One common thread that seems to run through modern Russia is extremem paranoia. It does not seem to matter what the Americans say or do. They simply will not believe any thing we say and no matter what we do we cannot seem to convince them that we emphatically do not want a new Cold War.

It is possible that Israeli technology might be adequate to defend against a Russian missle attack. Maybe the parties have agreed to upgrade the system. If they are going to go ahead with this system, I certainly hope so.

I agree with you that it was smart of the Poles to hold out for modernization of their armed forces. I must say the willingness of the former Soviet colonies to fight for their freedom seems most impressive. Those who were born free, such as in the US and especially Western Europe seem most apathetic by comaprison.

Even today the American leadership is saying the Cold War is over. It seems Russia disagrees with that assessment. Its gut check time for the Americans and the free world. Does the USA want to remain a major world power? If not, we may be able to concede the field to the Russians and the Chinese. Perhaps if they don't see us a threat they will leave us alone.

Given the performance of NATO and America during and after the Russian invasion of the de facto NATO member of Georgia, I would think that Ukraine, Poland, and others would be asking themseelves serious questions. Most importantly, "can we trust the Americans?" If they agreed to this missle defense system, I think the parties must have agreed to alter the original plan and have agreed to develop somehting that might actually be able to defend against Russia. With the incorporation of the Israeli technology you mention it may just be possible to develop such a system.

B.Poster said...

Were it not for Russian support of the Iranian and Norht Korean militaries the missle defense systeme that Russia is so worried about would have not been neccessary. I wish someone with any influence within the US government had the cojones to point this out.

Freedom Fighter said...

Hi Louie,
I'm with you on NATO's response louie..and I'm sure Putin figured out that th eWestern Europeans are weak, Bush is a lame duck and that it was a reasonable gamble to rape georgia right now. This has been in the planning stages for months.
John Bolton's take on this is that Bush should ask for a minister level conference of the North Atlantic Council ( which governs NATO)and fo rthe Euros to reverse their decision and IMMEDIATELY bring the Ukraine and Georgia into NATO. I agree with the 'Stache, and I'd go further..if they refused, I'd sign security defense agreements with those countries on my own...but I think if Bush pushed it, the Europeans woul dgo along.

Hi Poster, You believe anything the US State Department has to say? The missile defense shields were designed to give th e Russians second thoughts about trying to take back their old empire.

Maybe Dubbyah really did see into Putin's soul.As for your other point, I agree with you, and I'm certain that Co9ndi or someone else has said as much to the Russians covertly.

All Best,
FF

B.Poster said...

"You believe anything the State Department has to say?" Actually, no I don't. The US has been vilified all thoughout the main stream media on this. It sounds as if the main stream media simply repeats the Kremlin's propaganda without asking many questions. Yet no one has been able to explain exactly how this limited system with only about 10 interceptors would be adequate to contain Russia. Even some military analysists I have heard have said it would be not be adequate to contain Russia. The reaon no one can explain how it will contain Russia is becuase the system, as initially designed, could not have contained Russia. It was designed as an attempt to thwart attacks from Iran, North Korea, or any other nation who might send a limited barrage of missles at Europe.

Actually the Russians and the anti-American left seem to be very simillar. Both are insanely paranoid and neither one of them will ever listen to reason. It is useless to try and convince them of any thing or to negotiate with them. The bottom line is the system as originally intended was not designed with Russia in mind. No amount of evidence would ever convince the Russians of this.

Before Russia's attack on Georgia the negotians for the missle defense system were going no where. The Polish had figured out quite correctly that a missle defense system on their territory would only serve to further inflame the Russians. They also knew that the system, as proposed, would be inadequate to defend against Russia and it was not even being designed to do this. Such a system would have negative utility for the Polish. Even the Polish knew this, as they were adamantly against such a system. Had Russia not chosen to attack Georgia now this system never would have been built. The Polish would have nixed the deal, as signing it would have put them in even more danger.

In order for the Polish to go along with it now, the Americans must have modified the original proposal and must now plan to construct a system that might actually be able to thwart a Russian attack.

I agree with Louie that the NATO response has been much less than weak. I was being overly generous.

Freedom Fighter said...

Hi Poster,
What happened is that the Georgia invasion convinced the Poles they didn't have a whole lot of other options.

If you read the history of the region, you'll see that Poland, Lithuania(then the dominant Baltic power and much larger than it is now) and The Ukraine considered uniting into one nation at several times during their history solely to stave off the Russians.

It never happened because none of those national groups were willing to make the necessary concessions, so the Russians made slaves of them all.

Perhaps they've learned something over the years.

ff